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I live in Southern California where maple is not that available at the lumber yards. I suspect maple was such a common choice because it was readily available and cheap. At my local lumber yards mahogany-ish woods imported from Africa are more available and cheaper than maple.
I asked the guy at the lumber yard what would be the hardwood that would be the most available, reasonably priced, responsibly harvested, and above all domestic. Answer: poplar.
Why not poplar? It works well and is stable enough. The real problem for me is that it has an unappealing green hue.
So, finally, the question: does any one know of a treatment that could make poplar attractive? Staining with Amber or red? Bleaching somehow? Some creative burst?
And before some smart Alec says, "black automotive laquer", I'm really hoping to find some attractive use without painting it.


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Stella used poplar in the 20's-30's and I think Todd Cambio from Fraulini is using it on 12 strings. I used a lot of it when I was a cabinetmaker, and didn't think it was very stable. I suppose quartered poplar would be more stable, good luck on finding it. That's the problem with most lumber yards. I would bet Todd has it specially cut quartered by a local sawyer.
As to your question about "staining", I would dye it instead of stain. Stain contains pigments and they mask grain. You get a much better clarity with a dye like Trans-Tint. Sunbursts are no problem.

Google "poplar wood stained walnut". Poplar takes stain very well. I prefer dye stains, but pigment stains also work well.

Zillions of Harmony and Gibson guitars were made with poplar. Tinted lacquer is your friend.

That said, if you're going to the trouble of making your own guitar, I'd splurge a bit more on materials. If you'd rather not pay for a set of maple from one of the suppliers, I'm sure you can find some if you dig a bit more. Mahogany, walnut, maple are easily available here in and around LA. You do need to go to a hardwood supply place though. Lumber yards are only going to have poplar and mystery wood.

Presumably you are going to resaw your own back and sides?

I used to use poplar for drawer boxes, and sometimes I would come across a board that was white with some ink black streaking running through it. Book matched, it would look great for back and sides.

Alex

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"Indecision is the key to flexibility" .... Bumper sticker

I built a wonderful uke out of poplar. I chose a green and purplish, stripey well-quartered piece. And for the finish, I used TransTint dyes and mixed up a blended deep-orange into diluted shellac. I rubbed it in with a pad in a French polish like way - I do think the shellac helped achieve a nice even staining. The combo of the orange with the greenish purplish really came out beautiful. A very appealing brown and character that most folk would swear it was myrtle. The tone is mellow and sweet too. I have a local musician buddy who borrows it to play on recordings. He loves the tone.
I've considered building a guitar out of poplar and wouldn't hesitate if I found the right slab. I say go for it if you can find some well quartered pieces.

Here's a before stain pic… the headstock has stain, but I pulled some off because it was too dark. I'll have to take an after pic later, can't find one on my phone right now.

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Rodney Paul Adams

Made two necks out of poplar. Would not mind doing more with it but around here it is no cheaper than maple.

I use water soluble aniline dye, which will color poplar. Better yet, find some mineral stained 'rainbow' poplar, which has streaks of purple, black, red, and yellow. I think it looks fine with a natural finish.

http://blog.smith-lumber.com/2010/03/amazing-finds-inside-tree.html

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John

I would use Doug fir for the top. It's plentiful and you can easily find quartered. It's a great stiff substitute for the expensive spruces...

So, are we talking about Tulip Poplar?
The green looking stuff at H Depot looks terrible and is soft.
I've bought Poplar at at real lumberyard. It was not green and it was as hard or harder than Maple.
Just wondering if there is more than one type of Poplar?

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wah
Wah-wah-wah-wah
Wah

The stuff we call Poplar that grows here is only fit to be burned and even that is a poor choice compared to other woods. Probably a lot of variation depending where and how it was grown. Actually don't mind the green look.

That really is a cool looking poplar uke. Proves it can be done.

I like that greenish thing!

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Pat

Yes, raw lumber. I mill it myself. That is how I was taught, and that makes more sense to me than buying a milled set. I'm also making archtop guitars so I burn through much more wood to make a back. One carved back is enough wood for four or five flat top backs. I usually am looking for 8/4 raw lumber, but 4/4 will work.

Finding soft figured maple in San Diego is not easy. That having been said, I just bought 35 board feet today. It's not impossible, or even prohibitively expensive. It's just that the lumberyard had to call me to tell me they got 1000bft and it would be gone soon. Walk into the yard and they have 10,000-20,000bft of poplar in all dimensions. Makes me wonder why I'm insisting on maple just because that is what D'Angelico used nearly a century ago.

I admit I am also motivated towards local, sustainable, domestic, second growth, etc. I'm not here to try to convert anyone, and I'm sure some of you are rolling your eyes thinking "stupid hippy". I'm neither, but these are still important considerations for me. For that reason I prefer not to use tropical hardwoods from Africa, Latin America, or Asia (I'm still working on alternatives for fingerboards, finger-rests, tailpieces, and bridges). Poplar is domestic, grows quickly from seed, and is one of the few truly sustainable lumber harvests. Maple also fits that bill, but poplar is much more available here.

Also, yes I am thinking dye not "stain". The problem is that reds, browns, even ambers + green make yuk. I was hoping someone had some experience to share on how to tease out an appealing hue. I've heard of using oxalic acid. Supposedly it turns the green to brown and yellow to amber on poplar. Anyone have experience with that?

Rodney -- that headstock looks really interesting. A little dark, as you said, but not the muddy grey-brown I've seen in other dyed poplar. Can't wait to see the "after" picture!

Making archtops? That's a whole different ballgame. I'd stick to maple.

Responding to " Can Poplar look good" ---- Cherry, Curly Cherry, Black Walnut, Birch, Curly Birch, Maple hard/soft, Curly/Flamed -- Quarter sawn Red/White Oak in my view, are all much better domestic lumber choices for acoustic guitar making, especially the appearance aspect. The abundant "Yellow Poplar" grows like a weed but the truth is, for me, it does not garner any thoughts of extreme or even moderate natural beauty. Stains, tints and dyes are seldom used in our shop.

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Ken Cierp

http://www.kennethmichaelguitars.com/

The uke after staining pics. The strong sunlight makes it look a bit lighter than in person, but still I think this poplar looks quite good. Just my opinion of course...





In order for it not to look muddy or grey, I went with an orange stain. The orange on the greenish wood created the brown. You'd think just putting brown on would be the way, but nope. Gotta combine colors to achieve what you want, not try to cover up.

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Rodney Paul Adams

Yeah I would say that is proof that poplar looks good. Nice job!

What about oak? Do they have that at your lumber yard? Not sure how easy that would be to carve but it's a great tone wood and looks great too. As to poplar I was up in the northern part of Virginia last weekend and saw some of the most amazing poplar trees must have been 150ft tall and dead straight.

I've used oxalic acid to clean up stains on various woods, but not poplar. It generally doesn't change the natural color of wood, at least any I've tried. It will remove iron type stains very well -- as in those from a bending pipe.

Without getting too heavily into color theory: reds + green make yuk only if you are using additive color mixing. IF you use an orange/red/amber transparent tint coat over greenish wood, it is will not make yuk, because it is a subtractive color mixing. If opposing colors are 'mixe'd together on separate transparent layers instead of together like paints, it will eventually make black, not muddy brownish gray. Try it on scrap. Tinted color coats behave very differently from stains and dyes in the wood itself.

I would simply finish the poplar in orange or garnet shellac and call it a day.

The old poplar that grew in much of kentucky was very fine grained and nice colors of yellow/greeen. Somewhere here, I have stashed a very beautiful piece that looks ribbony like mahogany (and is as finely/closely grained as any mahogany) I salvaged from an old wardrobe years ago. I can't find it today as it seems buried under the stacks of lumber.
Yes, poplar can actually be very beautiful. It just depends on your notion of beauty, I suppose.

I was about to say that poplar would never look good in my lifetime, but that uke stained orange looks GREAT. I almost had to eat crow. Well done, Mr. Adams!

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"Act your age, not your shoe size" - Prince

About half way down the page...

http://fraulini.blogspot.com/2014/04/a- ... woods.html

By far, my favorite treatment for poplar is to sun tan it: https://www.google.com/search?q=poplar+ ... s&tbm=isch
The more green, the better. I tanned some years ago... IIRC it takes about 1 week for the full effect, maybe longer. Shorter times turn the green to honey. It's by far the least $ wood for that type of look.

But as mentioned above, poplar doesn't have a very good history as a tone wood. For domestic back/sides, the best common options are QS oak or walnut. For a lower-cost carved back, maybe alder?

Have you been to TH&H? http://www.th-h.com/products.htm#domesticwoods
They have a big selection of QSWO, well-quartered, usually some with great rays, ~$10/bf. They won't cut it anymore, though... gotta buy the whole length for that 3' of spectacular rays. They usually have a little QSRO, at a lower price. I don't often look for maple, but IIRC they have plenty of that, too. 4/4, 6/4, and 8/4 in most species.

The other main SD hardwood store is Frost http://www.frosthardwood.com/
Last I looked, their oak was only flat or rift. They cater more to contractors and their prices tend to be high for small orders.

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David Malicky

Potassium permanganate should oxidize the green to tan, as will occur naturally with time.
Tulip poplar is not a true poplar (populus) species, and has more desirable qualities than most poplars.

Frost is where I had the discussion about poplar with one of the salesmen. They had thousands of board feet of poplar, but almost couldn't find the soft figured maple. In the end I did find some, but only two boards were wide enough for backs. I took them both.

I haven't been to TH&H in a while, but Soroyan had some beautiful maple. Had being the operative word. I've been asked to rush a guitar for a charity auction and was frustrated at not seeing any suitable maple. I found some at Frost, but that is what started this whole thought process. I admit to certain bias against oak as it reminds me of cheap mid-century furniture (of course that stuff is incredibly expensive now ). However I did see a beautiful oak guitar where they had used black transtint dye to bring out figure and then burst it with orange/brown/black. Stunning.

Still, I was wondering about poplar (tulip poplar is what I'm seeing at the lumber yard). I am inspired to try some experiments with it after seeing it dyed orange. Perhaps a combo of tanning per clay's suggestion or testing the oxilic acid I've seen recommended on other woodworking sites and then finishing with garnet shellac. Looks like you get something like Khaya mahogany in color tone. It'll be a few months before I can get to that, but thanks to the feedback here I feel inspired to experiment.